How Great Britain Rugby Sevens use data to drive performance in sport

Bhavesh Vaghela: Hello and welcome to Ops Game Changers, the podcast that shines a light on the crucial role that operations team have in driving business performance and improving staff and customer experience. 

 

My name is Bhavesh, and I’m the Chief Marketing Officer here at ActiveOps. And in each episode, I hone in on one KPI or a challenge that a business has solved. We delve into how they’ve gone about doing this, and we explore the outcomes achieved. Now, today, we’re going to do something a little bit different. We’re going to delve into the world of sport. Sport for a long time has been at the forefront of using data to drive athlete performance. So, the question we’re going to ask ourselves in today’s podcast is how we in operations can learn from sport. 

 

Now, in order to explore this in a little bit more detail, I’m delighted to welcome our guest today, Ciaran Beattie. Ciaran’s the Director of Rugby at the Great Britain Rugby Sevens – and as an ex-player himself I know Ciaran is passionate about how to use data to drive performance on and off the pitch. Before we jump into topic, let’s welcome Ciaran to the podcast. So, Ciaran, thank you very much for joining us. 

 

Ciaran Beattie: Thank you. Thank you. 

 

Bhavesh: So, listen. Before we jump into data and your journey with data, you’re an ex-player, right? So how did that passion start? Tell us tell us your story of how you ended up where you are, from your point of view, when you first started to play Rugby to now, being where you are in your role as Director of Rugby. 

 

Ciaran: Oh, I don’t know how long the podcast is, but I’ll try and give the amended version. I think I fell in love with Rugby, and probably Rugby Sevens when I was in the womb to be honest. It’s just growing up here in the beautiful Scottish borders and Sevens is a bit of a way of life down here. It’s the birthplace of it, and Rugby is definitely in the blood. So, growing up in and amongst Rugby constantly, my mum was busy with the local club. My dad was a Strength & Conditioning Coach. 

 

Bhavesh: Wow! 

 

Ciaran: Yeah. Your days were your nights, your days were just spent at the Rugby Club, so I think I was always going to have some involvement in it. And then, yeah, just loved it. I think that was the thing I fell in love with it rather than necessarily because I was any good at it. I just really enjoyed the sport over time, growing up, and I’ve been fortunate to have some good people in and around me, and good family and friends, and then came to be a professional Rugby player. That got cut fairly short, due to injury, and I actually fell into performance analysis funnily enough. 

 

Bhavesh: Wow. 

 

Ciaran: And then had a career there and worked with the National team. I was a Scotland team performance analyst for 6 years there and then went into coaching, and after a few years I’ve landed here into Director of Rugby at Great Britain Sevens, which I’m very grateful for. It’s a huge challenge but one I’m absolutely loving. 

 

Bhavesh: So, one of the things I’m always passionate about and I’ve seen obviously the Sevens play. It’s an incredibly fast sport. You have to be incredibly fit. And you know you take a lot of hits during the tournament or during the games. Right? So, what was it like playing? Because it just looks insane. 

 

Ciaran: It was that. I think I have the utmost most respect for anyone that steps onto a Sevens pitch, because what you’re about to put your body through is it’s hard to describe. You think, I’ve ran marathons, ultra marathons. I’ve done crossfit-type stuff, but it’s a different thing playing because Sevens you have the ultimate fatigue level in terms of aerobic and anaerobic.  

 

Your body is aching from the physicality of it, plus you’ve got to make, technically, you’ve got to execute some skills under extreme pressure. And tactically, your brain’s got to be thinking all the time, because there’s always opportunity. There’s always threat. So, for me, it’s the ultimate sport. I’m very biased, but I think it’s the ultimate sport, but it does put you as an individual under the microscope.  

 

What was it like? It’s nerve wracking every time. I always say to new players when they come in, that they’re always nervous before the first caps, and I always describe it as “type two” fun. It’s like you’ll not enjoy it in the moment, but you will, after the pride you feel walking off a pitch when you’ve managed to actually last that 14  minutes, or even better, when you’ve lasted a tournament or a double-leg. It’s the pride in yourself, and the accomplishment is huge, and that’s the addiction, I think. Why we keep doing it. 

 

Bhavesh: Yeah, I guess. 

 

Ciaran: It’s tough, it’s a warrior sport. 

 

Bhavesh: Yeah, totally. And for people, our listeners, who perhaps don’t know Sevens, tell us a little bit about the format. What’s Sevens all about? 

 

Ciaran: So, Sevens is kind of what it says. It’s 7-minute halves, 7 players, which, when you compare it to a 15s game there’s a lot more space on the pitch and that means there’s lots more going on. So, there’s tries every 90 seconds, and the whole point of the game is to speed it up and to make it really attractive, and to put the individual the players under some real stress, and therefore you see some real opportunities and threats in the game and some amazing things going on. So, it’s an incredible sport.  

 

So, 7 minutes each way we play on the World series we’ll tend to do. There’s different formats for each tournament, but how it tends to work is you’ll play, you’ll be in a pool stage day one and then day two. You’ll go to quarterfinals, semifinals, finals, and you’ll get seedings accordingly. And there’s a big world series. We are really fortunate. We travel around the world to the most amazing places, and we go play the sport we love for the year. And then at the end of it there’s a there’s a winner and a loser, there’s a crowned world champions, and then there’s relegation as well. So, there’s a business end to this as well to launch it. It’s all fun, but it’s a beautiful sport, and it’s easy to follow. I think one of the things in football / soccer is one of the most watched and followed sports in the world, because it’s so easy to watch. You don’t know the rules. It’s pretty easy. 

 

Bhavesh: Well apart from the offside rule… 

 

Ciaran: Yeah. Well, that that therein lies the thing! That the offside rule is the most difficult law – that’s not really that difficult. In rugby, oh, my goodness, there’s lots of laws. There’s lots, whereas a Sevens is a simplified version of that. It’s the same laws. But it becomes easier to watch. It’s because there’s just less moving parts. So, I again very biased. I just think it’s a beautiful sport. 

 

Bhavesh: No, it’s a great sport. It’s a great sport. I’ve started to love it. If I’m honest, the more we’ve kind of worked with you guys, it’s been fantastic. So, you mentioned that your career cut short due to injury, and then you went into performance. So, I’m curious then, if we kind of talk a little bit about data. What was it like back then? Was data a big part? Tell me through to talk us through a little bit of that early journey of yours. 

 

Ciaran: Yeah, I mean, I think so that we’re talking 2005, 2006, even 2007 as late as that, really. So, I had an injury, I was out for this season. I was young, I was mad, for it loved, loved the sport obviously, and was a professional player. So, I was sitting on my bum, doing nothing, really, and said, I want to keep my brain active with Rugby, especially in Rugby, so volunteered to start doing some sort of what is performance analysis. But at the time it was just literally VHS tape, stick it in, take note, take loads of notes, and I mean, that was, this is professional teams we’re talking about. That was where it was at and then I sit down with the coaches and go off of a line out they run a 6-man line out, they throw up at the front. Like really simple basic things and it kind of grew arms and legs. I didn’t really get back playing because of the injury, for a couple of years I was still professional and dipping in and out and then ended up going out of that into performance analysis. And it was the early stages of basic for the first time you could put a game on a laptop. You could then code and so block the game up into simple things. There’s a scrum. There’s a line out. There’s a restart so basic things. Then from that it can start. It started very quickly to, we were generating some stats on sports ourselves rather than looking at external companies, so as a team we would when I was working for Scotland Sevens as an analyst. I could generate my own stats on that team. And so that’s where it started. Were the stats wholly relevant in influencing the game? Questionable, and I still question that now, and I’m sure we’ll delve into that. But it was, because it was brand new, and it was like, oh, we’ve got stats on this. It felt shiny, and it felt like it would. It would 

 

Bhavesh: Yeah. 

 

Ciaran: Win us the game. So yeah, that was it. And then 6 years there. And at that time, I was in a really fortunate position. I was doing the national team. I was doing 

age grades. I was doing Sevens. I was in with both pro teams, Edinburgh and Glasgow, so I was getting a real touch point in every area which I think ultimately has helped me as a coach, as a person, and how you want to shape an environment because you just got exposure all these amazing places. And so, it’s really cool a great time. 

 

Bhavesh: That’s awesome. So, it sounds like at that early stages it was about using data in inverted commas to see how the team performs on the pitch. Does that feel right? And then, when did data start coming in for conditioning the player before they crossed the line? 

 

Ciaran: Yeah, I mean, I mean that I think that’s that was a bit that was probably ahead. So, when I was speaking about performance analysis. That’s the on-pitch Rugby stuff like where we what was our conversion rate in the opposition 22, all that kind of stuff. So that started to creep in. The S&C is obviously that was there. And I mean it’s it comes on leaps and bounds every year, as you’re probably aware, and you see it with different types of training. But I mean, it was just at that point there it was, there’s an early aerobic test, an early strength test. We’re going to do a hypertrophy 6-week block, and then we’ll test you again in this strength test. That was probably as much as it went. There was, there was simple stuff like urine testing, which there was, I remember doing like an aerobic test where you got like the you run the running machine. You got masks on and stuff. Again, what was the transfer? I think I mean at the time, as a playe you just thought you were told that was the right thing, and you got on with it. But I always wonder now, looking back, when what was the transfer like? What was the data used for? Did it actually make a difference, or was there a bit of job justification there? I don’t know. And whereas there was some certain stuff like with the strength testing, because I was coming back from injury like it was around my pelvis and my hip. It was like there were certain markers I just knew having those tests and being able to test in different ways. Specific muscle groups allowed me to go right, oh, I’m way off here, I’m way off here. So, it’s actually I feel good. But I’m not good. So that test did influence as an injury prevention. And but nowadays, I mean. Goodness me, they’ve got everything under the sun, and I’m sure in 10 years’ time we’ll look back at how crude our measures are just now, at the minute it feels very cutting edge and feels like we’re, yeah. We’re just we seem to know we have the ability to know everything about an athlete, or as much as we need to know at the minute. So. 

 

Bhavesh: Yeah, it’s really, it’s really interesting because you think about, if I put it into our context in terms of operations, leaders and operations teams. Ultimately, operations teams are all about, you know, driving performance out of the operations team, right? Trying to get as much work done with this, you know, least amount of effort. Drive, drive the efficiency and productivity. So, your performance on the pitch is our productivity in an organizational perspective. And in the same way. A big worry for organizations is burnout, employee burnout, right? Because if you work people too hard for too long a period of time, then you’re going to get burnt out, and you get sickness and all the other things that happen as a result of that. And it’s pretty common. You see it in organizations when there’s been pressure points. There’s a lot of synergies. Then in what you guys are doing because you’re obviously trying to make sure that the players at the optimal condition, for when they cross the line, so they haven’t been overly overloaded, and they’re ready to go for that 14 minutes, right? Well, that’s 7 minutes and that half. So, there’s a lot of synergies in terms of what you guys try and do on a pitch, and that’s why it’s quite interesting to to learn about what you know the things that you look at. So, before we jump into that, just let’s go into Sevens then. So, GB Sevens, so tell us a little bit about your GB Sevens philosophy, right? Because it’s fast forward from when you first started in the late in the early noughties, I guess you’d say. And to now. So, what’s the philosophy for the whole organization of the team now? 

 

Ciaran: Yeah. GB Sevens, I suppose philosophy. There’s there’s a number of things. There’s goals, and there’s philosophy. I think philosophy where we’re there to push the boundaries of performance. So, which aligns to the conversation you’re having there whether we’re doing that or not remains to be seen. But that’s that’s our philosophies. That’s what we’re wanting to do is push the envelope a little bit, and we do that under, I think you speak to, it’s really interesting traveling around the world with different unions that have different constraints across the world. Think the thing I’ve learned is everybody has a constraint. There’s always constraints somewhere, whether it’s resource or weather, or whatever. There’s always a constraint. So, it’s, how do you push the boundaries of your performance within that, whatever your constraint is, so that’s ultimately ours is to optimize what we’re doing. And we believe we do that, then we will at some point we will create and sustain the world’s best Sevens environment, and we believe we’re gonna do that, and what the timeline looks on, that we have we have that internally in our heads, but a bit of a roadmap. But actually, that’s not fixed at all. That’s just we know we’re gonna get there if we continue to for this philosophy and to kind of circle back to your point like an example of that. How are we doing that? So, one of our constraints is, we are camp based model at the minute. So, we’ve got people living all over Great Britain, and then we’ve got to come together as a team, and then we travel away and we play, and what we do at the minute is we come in as a group. We train for 3 or 4 days, and then we go away, for might be 2 weeks might be a week might be 4 days depending on the model, and the time we’ve got available to us. So, we plan all this out for you, and you’re right. The point about loading is is a huge, huge, and probably the biggest thing that we is constantly in our heads is going right? Okay, we’re wanting them to peak here, and we know you can’t. There’s no point sitting down here because you need to actually, chronically build them up. It’s a simple way you just have to like build up their load. So, I know I couldn’t go run a marathon just now, because I’ve not run enough. But what I need to do is train for that. But then, just before that, I don’t want to be running 20 miles 3 days before it’s dead simple stuff from. And I don’t understand the science of I just understand what we need to do is actually, that’s how we’re trying to do it with Rugby. And then, in the Sevens point of view, we’re going, we’ve got all these tournaments in the year. So how do we peak and go? And then how do we improve as well? Because they’re all individuals so how do we actually get them to a point where they’re not just able. But that’s thriving in that environment. But we’ve only got a 3-week window. Now, what does that look like? So, every training session is thought about in that regards. If you think, then we’re coming. Our constraint about the cap-based model is going. We’ve got coaches. I want to put in Rugby and fill the day. And actually, we’ve not seen them. I want to do XY, and Z. But actually, is that the right thing? Because chronically, and their chronic loads opens them up to more injury. 

 

Bhavesh: Yeah, of course. 

 

Ciaran: How we manage them. We’re always Rugby. You’re always running the risk. There’s always a risk reward on injury and how far we push things. But again, it’s about us managing that using data. So, we track we have GPS on everything we do. So, we track their running loads. Not just the meters they do, but their high-speed exposures, which is really important to Sevens. So we’ll make sure at home they’ve got specific programs that make sure you need to be hitting X 90% of your high speed exposure. And that’s all individualized to that individual they’ve got so many exposures they’ve got so much running load before they even come into camp, so that we can train them effectively and train them safely, and likewise before we head off in a tournament. And so, we’re using data. And that way wellness scores and daily monitoring. And then the subjective thing of actually checking in with people, I think, is underrated as well, actually having a relationship with people. And how are you feeling, where we are what are you feeling as an athlete it’s amazing how you know your body when you’re you’re right on that edge. You kind of know when you’re creaking, when you’re feeling sore but actually, I’m actually okay. I’m sore. But I’m okay. I’m okay. And it’s amazing. 

 

Bhavesh: And I guess in some ways the data. You know the amount of data you collect these days on that strength and conditioning side to make sure the player is, as we said, the optimal performance. But it’s always fascinating for me about the difference. The data versus the mind, right? Because the mind is probably if not the harder thing to control, right? Because the data you can use the data to build your conditioning and all those kinds of things, and but it’s the mental strength piece which is always fascinating. And I suspect data is not really used there, or, do you see, is there any measures of seeing how people react. Is that how that works? 

 

Ciaran: Spot on. A few years ago, I did a dissertation and flat listed all the data we had on a specific 6 moments in a tournament. So, 6 moments and I flat listed all the data we I had as the head coach. At that time, I was a head coach and there was millions and millions and millions and millions of data points, millions of dots I could join. So how do I make a decision about that as a coach. And the whole point about the dissertation was going and I kind of finished with this analogy on it was. Do you know the rabbit, duck, picture? 

 

Bhavesh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, good. Yeah. 

 

Ciaran: So, if you were, if you lived in a world where only rabbits existed would you see in that picture? 

 

Bhavesh: Yeah, course you’d see a rabbit, right? 

 

Ciaran: You’ll have no world where only ducks existed. You’d only see ducks. You wouldn’t know the rabbit thing existed. At the minute, like we’re dealing with so much data and then what we do is we join dots. So, we only live in a world with rabbits. Oh, there’s a rabbit so we join and oh, that’s the solution. That’s how we make this better. But actually, we don’t know we’re not privy to the rest of it, or our bias takes us down the rabbit analogy rather than looking objectively at the rabbit duck. And that’s very crude analogy. But hopefully, that paints the picture is. 

 

Bhavesh: Yeah. 

 

Ciaran: So, for example, we’ve got, and in a game, we’ve got oh, my God, I’ll not go through it all! But we’ve got, when that player wakes up in the morning, they’re filling out forms going. This is how I feel. Wellness. Scores muscle scores are doing, testing stretch, testing everything in the morning blood pressure, all that kind of jazz. Then in that moment we’ve got that data. We’ve got the analysis of the opposition. We’ve got the analysis of us. We’ve got the GPS of us we’ve got, then the volatile situation of a Sevens game, the volatile situation of 14 players on the pitch, and then a volatile situation of a referee who’s a human, and as we’ve said, is trying to referee a sport that actually is not easy to referee, actually very, very grey, like I genuinely you could stop every breakdown and go there is some sort of infringement there. 

 

Bhavesh: Right. 

 

Ciaran: They wanted could blow the whistle, because the law of that is but what they do is they put their own interpretation on it. So, it’s such a volatile situation. So yeah, we try and especially as coaches, we feel like we need this justification of 

oh, we need like, I need something to lean on. Oh, it’s it’s the restarts. That’s the reason why. Because the data says this. Now, yes, that might be right, and that is pointing us in a direction. But is there other? Is there other areas that we are even unaware of that dots that we haven’t joined that actually are bigger bang for buck? And I think that’s the thing is is the bang for buck. And that’s what that’s my big fascination with data is it’s actually pulling out. I don’t think you can do anything wrong in your coaching. It’s what is the bang for buck? Can I be doing this more efficiently? Can I be doing this better? And I sometimes think we lean on data, and and we put 100% validity on it. Actually, the validity isn’t necessarily that, because we don’t know, and we don’t know what the validity of this is. And if we know it’s not 100% valid and it might be 50% valid that’s also cool. We can still use that data as long as we know. And we have the the headspace to go right? We think we’re in the right direction. But let’s be open to the fact that actually there might be something else. And there might be other dots we need to join here. So yeah, probably not answers, but in a headspace. I’ve kind of went down a bit of a rabbit hole. Excuse the pun. 

 

Bhavesh: But it’s interesting, though, you know, Ciaran, because actually, when you think about it, that is actually very similar to what happens in businesses, the amount of data. People aren’t shy of data. They’ve got so much of it from a business perspective. And it’s where do you start right? How do you use the right data to make the right decisions rather than look at everything. And you know, so you guys are going through that phase where if you think about all sport, and your Rugby is one you think about Formula One, football. All these sports are collecting data like crazy. There’s so much stuff and the split-second decisions that will win or lose a game or a race, or whatever it happens to be. So, it’s about, you know, even from a business point of view. It’s about delving into the data pool you’ve had, and I love the analogy of the rabbit and the duck, because it’s what you know, and that brings a couple of questions in my mind. First is where AI will play, because that’s  

where the rabbit and duck starts breaking down, because the AI can look  

across the piece and give you things that you didn’t think about, and that’s the power of it. Right? That’s the real excitement of AI outside of, I think you still always will need a human interpretation, because, as you said, each ref is different. By the way, quick question on the Ref. Do you collect any data on the Ref? Do you kind of say. 

 

Ciaran: Yeah, right, yeah. 

 

Bhavesh: This Ref does that. 

 

Ciaran: Yeah, yeah, we collect, I mean, they’re humans. So, they have trends. And we try and we try and interpret those trends and also, yeah. But I mean the good thing with the Sevens. It’s it’s a bit of a family, and we know the Refs. We know them well. They know us, and they know we look at them. And and so we know if there’s certain referees are like very hot in the breakdown, or they’re not like certain things. So, we’ll just have to dial back a little bit, or we feel we can get away with certain things. So yeah, that that goes on and. 

 

Bhavesh: I bet. So just this AI question, then, so excuse me. So, do you think again in a sport will be ones that will bring use cases of using AI, the crunching of data because you guys have regular volumes of data, right? Happens consistently. What’s your view on it? What’s your view on what potentially AI could do? 

 

Ciaran: I think what you’ve just said is exactly my personal space on that is is, I completely agree with you. I think that’s the beauty of what AI could do is, look at things objectively and go here’s the dot joining. And actually, you’ve joined A to B, but actually, over here. There’s a lot of other dots that could be joined as well. And then there’s a human interpretation of you describe the validity, you put the validity on which one and what’s bang for buck for you? I think that’s where AI could do that, because as a coach or when you’re in it. We all do it. We all do this. I could, whatever I coach. If I say we want to. Every third phase, I want our winger to stand on their head. We could do that, and then I could pull it. I could somehow manipulate a Stat to go. Oh, see, we’re now better because our wing are standing on their head. Now, are we better because the wing is standing on their head, or are we are we not? And probably not, would be my guess. But what we want is the ability for a say, AI, to actually present all these things and go. This is your data. These are the trends you know, if there was some sort of percentage validity on that, that would be incredible. I think that’s the thing there, because we have so much, and the thing about, say, Sevens and sport is it’s so fast paced. So, Sevens, for example, sometimes we’ve got 2 hours in between games actually knowing what bang for Buck is the biggest thing. Because, yes, we’ve got a brilliant analyst, Will Price, who can turn stuff about. We’ve got excellent S&C team we’ve got. We’ve got everything we want our fingertips. But can we use it because we’ve got to look at it, interpret it, and then also put it into a format where they’ve just been. Players have just been through a 30 mile an hour car crash, and then they’ve got to recover, go through other processes, and then we’ve got to give them information that they can interpret as a as a group again. It’s a one size fits nobody in terms of the message. But how do we do that? And what is the bang for buck at the minute there’s a there’s a definite thing. We’ll see my personal view and coaching was. I just was like, what’s the main thing? So again, it’s the bang for buck in the data and the feel and everything. What’s the main thing? So how can we? How can we pull out the main thing. And I think there’s something there. There’s space with artificial intelligence that can help us with that, I’ve no doubt. And I think there’s an area that’s a bit grey over here that we’ve just kind of scratched the surface. But this is where we’ve got the tools in place. We need something to pull it together to go. There’s the bang for buck. There’s the main thing, and I think that’s where it could do that, even if it was just a flat list. We’re given that flat list of data, and it starts churning, churning something out. And because, as I said, we’re doing that at the minute we’ve got the flat list we just need to. 

 

Bhavesh: Completely. And have you got? Have you got kind of plans to start adopting some AI in different areas in in Sevens at the moment, or is it still early days for you guys? 

 

Ciaran: Yeah, I mean, there’s stuff like I spoke like we’re from a Rugby point of view from just a Rugby point of view. We’re using a package called Huddle, and then in that you can like go into export that into a package called Studio. There’s a bit of AI in there in terms of you can. It’s almost like the Sky Sports thing. And this is very this isn’t the level there’s there’s far more levels we could go into. But you can like highlight players, and it can just mark them and follow them. And it can highlight areas in on a pitch and bit Sky Sports styles stuff. And that’s a massive learning tool. And it’s not interpreting the data for us, like, I’m giving it the data, and but it it’s I’m going like, just track that player. Or just show me the speed that players running at. That’s really impressive. And that’s that’s sometimes really good for us, because we can go distance, they’re covering. What’s the distance of passing they’re doing there? Because if we have sometimes pulled out a trend where a team from the base of a ruck to the first receiver. Actually, this passes miles. And actually, they’re really close to the D line. But nobody’s putting pressure on it. Actually, there’s an opportunity there, and I’ve pulled that out through the AI of a studio. So, it’s creeping in there, and every year it gets more refined, and as often with technology, it just gets better and better, user friendly for people that cause you’re dealing with people that aren’t necessarily tech gurus. But I do think it’s now part of our world where we need to upskill as coaches. And it’s part of our world. Yeah. 

 

Bhavesh: Do you see, Ciaran, as a coach, do you see a day where you walk off the pitch, and the AI tells you some specifics for each player that’s played that match instantly and says, okay, these are the things that you need to coach that individual prayer to do for the next match or this is the one thing or this. By the way, this player is probably close to his edge and shouldn’t be in the next match. Or do you see a day? Because right now that’s instinct. I would imagine that as a coach’s instinct, you know the players well, you’ve worked with them for many, many months, years. You’ve got some data points. You understand what the psyche of those individuals are. So, when they walk off a pitch. Or when you see them play on the pitch, you instinctively probably know what’s going on to that individual player. But at some point, you would, I would imagine it’s not, you know, inconceivable that you walk off the pitch, and it tells you everything you need to know.  

 

Ciaran: Absolutely. I think you’re absolutely it will, because we do that manually, almost retrospectively now. So, we’ll, because, as I said, the turnaround time. Let’s just speak Sevens in specifically 2 hours in between games there’s a lot like there could be. Somebody’s picked up an injury, are they right? Are they wrong? That’s probably the biggest bang for buck, are they? Gonna is that person going to be in there? Because if they’re not, we don’t have a kicker on the team. All that kind of jazz rather than finding out the little 2% that we need to go work on as a team. So, there’s always the dynamics of team sport at the minute we do that retrospectively. So, we’ll go player X had X amount of minutes X amount of running meters, high-speed, high-speed exposures. And back in the day when I when I was an analyst, I used to do like an impact score like a really crude sort of like this is a number of impacts this person’s had on their body. Therefore, we changed their recovery protocols because of it, whereas, compared to this person at the minute, because everything’s GPS, we actually get an impact score from their GPS, so their momentum gets hit, the deceleration on an on a hit can track the impact that that person’s and then that can. It’s actually a true measure of how hard they’ve been hit. So, it’s crazy, and we can adapt recovery down to that. But then there’s a lot as well like, circle it right back. There’s all this, and you made the point about. There’s some players. Honestly, I don’t know how they do it. They just go through it. And they’re like, Yeah, I’m glad. Yeah, that’s. 

 

Bhavesh: That’s awesome. 

 

Ciaran: This, is it? And then there’s some players are like literally in tears after the game, because they’re just so sore, so battered. It was so tough you’ve got to pick them up for the 2 hours. This is the beauty of sport. It’s just, it’s a one-size fits nobody. But to answer your point. Yes, that’s almost where it needs to go, because we are doing it retrospectively, and we are using it. But actually, if it’s more in the moment. The quicker that turns around, the more it is because if we could, walk off the pitch and we go right. Player X, you need to be an ice bath. You need to be on massage. You need to be. Actually, you’re good. Can you go pick up the laptops and start looking at this and actually, you’re good to go. Just make sure you feel. And that sort of stuff would be incredible, or the bit the coaching point. The Rugby point is the data we receive on the Rugby is, I think you’ve always got to put your. We’re not nowhere near at the stage of putting our coat and hanging people out to dry on stats, I don’t think, and when I see coaches doing it, it’s a massive bugbear of mine, so I was probably had, as a coach had the biggest grounding in stats and my background, and I probably presented them the least. I probably looked at them the most but presented them the least. Because I just seen so many times really simple example, Player X, you’ve only made 60% of your tackles. That’s not good enough. I’m gonna drop you for the next game. And I’m looking at that going. Yeah. But that player put themselves in the position to go make those tackles like. Let’s go have a look at those. Let’s go have a look at the 60%. They made it. And the 40 they didn’t actually wow, fantastic. Let’s go. I’m concerned about the 100%, because this this guy’s not doing anything he’s like, he’s so in his comfort zone back here. And actually, as a team, do we need that? No, I don’t need that. I want you to go, miss some tackles, so there’s not a black and white on what’s a good and bad stat, but what it allows you to do is point in the direction. So, say, for example, that 60% tackle completion at the minute it allows you to go right. I need to go have a look at that. So that’s what the stat does. It just puts a little spotlight on something to go right kinda is there something I need to intervene on this? Yes, or no? And and that’s what the stat allows you to do, and that’s what I think, where we’re at. Will it completely inform our coaching? I think it guides you, and I think it certainly helps. But I think you’re right. There’s always this human element, because it’s such a volatile, humans. And yeah, just so much going on. But yeah. 

 

Bhavesh: And do you know, I think the that’s the beauty of it. That’s the beauty of sport. Right? Is that you can never predict it. I mean, you know, who would have thought Man City would go through a period of losing so many games? Just wouldn’t have seen it, would you? It just wouldn’t have happened. Nobody would have bet that at all. It’s just the beauty of it, right? You just don’t know what’s going to happen on the day so, but I guess as any sportsman you are always looking for the edge as much of an edge you can get to beat the opposition, but also safety. I think these days player safety is, you know, significantly more, perhaps, to even when you were playing. But even before that, and you know the whole concussion stuff, you know. You know when you’ve been hit, I think the gum shields give you data as well. So, when you so all of a sudden, the player safety is, is getting more and more important, and data again plays a big part in that right. 

 

Ciaran: Yeah, it is. And quite rightly, I don’t think you’re not going to find anyone that disagrees with the way the sports moving as well in terms of it’s becoming safer and safer, I mean, as I think, back to again when I played and again you didn’t know, no one knew, and it’s probably good. Ignorance was bliss. But I mean goodness me, there was.  I wouldn’t have played half the games with some of the stuff that went on, and whereas now there’s as you said, so they’ve got there’s been. It’s been in the circling in the background for a while, but they used to have like tests on the back of their ears. You could put patches that would again measure impact for concussion. Now it’s gum shields. And they’re becoming mandatory, which is great, which is great. We’re going through a trialling phase of this because of the data. And again, it’s a technology that we need to support this. And we need to push the trial and be 100% supportive, because there is quite rightly, when you get more data, you also learn the dangers. And actually, as a I’m a father of 3, do I want to throw my kids into a sport that in the press at the minute shows negative connotations of health. If I didn’t know the sport I’d be going. Oh, my good that like I’d have a red flag. 

 

Bhavesh: I’m not gonna do this. Yeah, totally. 

 

Ciaran: Luckily, like I know the sport. And I know. Yeah, I understand the dangers, but I understand it’s that. But I understand the benefits of that, and that’s yes, I am biased on that. But and it’s like that with sport, because all the other holistic benefits of sport and the health benefits of sport. But quite rightly, let’s not just accept that. How can we minimize that? And let’s work hard at that. So that’s a big thing, and especially with Rugby in particular, under the spotlight as it stands. But I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing, I think it’s a good thing, because if it’s something we can, as a global entity. Get on top of and make this even even safer and continue to have the benefits of what it’s got, then, happy days. 

 

Bhavesh: No, I totally agree. I totally agree. So, you know, as we as we wrap up the the podcast. I’m just curious. If you’re, if you’re kind of going to give advice to people using data, what would you say? What would you say from your perspective in your sporting context? What would your advice be? 

 

Ciaran: Take in as much data as you can like at the minute this is what I do. I try and take in as much as I can. I always try and have that thought in my head is how valid is this. Nothing is a hundred percent valid, and nothing is, I don’t know if valid is the right words, but don’t know if I’m explaining that well, but nothing is a hundred percent valid. Nothing’s of zero use at all. But like not, not every bit of data is a hundred percent valid and then also think, have an open mind about going, there’s probably something I’m missing here. There’s probably something else. I’ve just not the dots; the rabbit and duck analogy just sits for me. It’s like, am I living in a world of rabbits here, or is there ducks over here that I need to have a look at? So, using that. And I think what’s the scariest thing in sport is, it is so volatile, there’s so much you can do. There’s only x amount of time you’ve got, and there’s only so much energy you can put into certain things. So, some guidance through data about where you put your energy and how effective you are is massive. And it actually, it buys people in as well. So, like our recovery protocols. All our S&C stuff is grounded on data. People buy into it now, and people do it. And then they see we actually see objective growth and benefit. That’s because of data. From a Rugby point of view that’s a bit more widespread at the minute. So, it’s just having that awareness of the rabbit duck analogy. 

 

Bhavesh: That’s a great analogy. I think, that works really, really well. So, what are your hopes and aspirations for the team? Then I mean. Obviously, you’re working towards the Olympics. I would imagine. 

 

Ciaran: Yep. 

 

Bhavesh: What’s your goals? What are your goals you’re setting yourselves? 

 

Ciaran: I think we started 3 years ago a bit of a rocky start, and came together pretty last minute, and when I say last minute, within weeks we were sitting in a room and going oh, right, we’re now. What do we do? So, it’s been an incredible 3 years, and luckily, we had the Olympics in 2024 as a bit of an okay, let’s just crack on. Let’s get to there and see where we get to. We’re now in a phase where we’re post that we’re now established, and we’re going right, we are wanting to be, and we believe we can be the world’s best Sevens environment. And a big part of that is Olympics. And we’ve got LA in 4 years. I think there’s Brisbane 4 years after that. And we have. We’ve got a bit of a roadmap plan about how we build this, and Great Britain Sevens is an exciting place to be at the minute, because it’s got seismic growth. If you look back over the last 3 years where we’ve been. And yeah, we’re starting from rock bottom. So, the growth was easy, and it was always going to go up. But our seismic growth at the minute is exciting on and off the pitch, and it’s just a really cool place to be in. What is a cool sport, and off the back of the Olympics the sport is just thriving as well, so yeah, cool, cool place to be, and I’d be excited to see where it is in a couple of years’ time, and in 8 years’ time I think we’ll be. 

 

Bhavesh: Knocking on the door. 

 

Ciaran: Absolutely. 

 

Bhavesh: Well, Ciaran, it’s been fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing some of your thoughts. I think the one stat that always just amazes me is the one you just said today on the podcast that every game you’ve been like, you’ve been hit by a car an over 30 miles an hour. I mean that just doesn’t compute in my head that you would go into battle effectively against another team, and you walk away you know, having been hit by a car. And you do that multiple times over the weekend. That’s just madness. But what a sport it is amazing. 

 

Ciaran: Yeah, yeah, no, the respect everyone that that plays it. But there’s as I said, it’s that. I think that stat maybe shocks you. But remember the like in life we’re looking for these feelings and the feeling of pride when you walk off that pitch is amazing. 

 

Bhavesh: Oh completely. For the you know, as a as a spectator. To even wonder what it’s like to be on a pitch playing in front of a crowd, you know, with your home nation jerseys, and the pride that you must face, and winning a game or scoring a try or hitting the, you know, making the big, big hit, just the adrenaline rush. Just must be insane. And you guys are very lucky to have found something that you’re passionate about and do on a daily basis. 

 

Ciaran: Yeah, no. Very grateful, very grateful. 

 

Bhavesh: Well, Ciaran, thank you so much. So, you know, I think that’s what you’ve shared today is a lot of synergies with the sorts of challenges that operations people face in terms of how they use data more effectively. So, I think there’s a lot of insights that you’ve shared that can translate very, very well from a business perspective as well. So just remains to thank the listeners for joining us, and kind of please do check in for more episodes of Ops Game Changers to hear more fascinating insights from other leaders in the field of operations, about how they overcome challenges 

to drive productivity and boost performance by, you know, using data more effectively. So, thank you very much for listening and bye, for now.